Curse

Cyril Aspect · May 25, 2006, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Firstly I'm Pve Pvp

now then @wasaguest you do realize that if your opinion is not based on facts then it can be argued against right? I mean believe what you want but thats a way of discussion that is perfectly acceptable.

reading both yours and phades points I would recommend that you would do well to shorten your posts to "I think this" without reasons because if you give reasons then it cna be disputed and if you don't want people arguing your opinions then jsut phrase them as such

what he did was point inaccuracies in things which clearly you state as factors in formulating your opinion

an opinion based on false information is not quite as useful as one based on true circumstances

Phades post was not done in a tone that could be considered a flame and I take offense that you would dismiss without real discussion someone who took tha tmuch time to go through your own statements point by point.

all of that aside the point remains what are logical reasons for separating the two.

TheMadKingGeorge · May 25, 2006, 04:25 PM // 16:25

/signed

im sick of having to go idle in PvP Just to earn some faction
it sucks theres 2 quests in which you can earn faction in pve and you can do them solo so its not exactly pve also the have nerfd pve and not fixed glitches in it and i dont see why the loosing side should get points for faction. i dont get points if i fail to complete a quest

dreamhunk · May 25, 2006, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter Sharparrow

In prophecies alot of people complained about the favor system. All it did was create problems for those that play PvE. In factions problems were amplified now that the PvP and PvE are more closely tied together.

There are those that do PvP, those that do PvE and those that do both. A total seperation would do much good. What is need is a connetion between them in such a way that all three player types are satisfied but just remove how one has an impact on the other; how one puts limits on the other.

So /signed to seperate the two but ony seperate their influence upon each other while leaving the inter-connectivity between them.

I gave that idea in this fourm and mod banned me for that idea. I knew from the start this would be a major problem. Why do I think this because ant target markets rpg players. The vast amount of people buying gw is rpg players. Anet has soo move so far from they promised it is not even funny. If you keep pushing pvp down prg players throuts you going to find gw going fast on it death bed. That is all I am going say on the topic.

what I had said is to have the 3 game styles in the game.

pvp should have all their skills.

pvpve should have what they want

rpg play the way they like.

Pik uR BuM · May 25, 2006, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Noone is being forced to pvp or pve. I dont see why people are complaining about this issue. If you dont want to pvp, then dont. Its as easy as that. Noones not puttin a gun in your face and saying you have to pvp or pve just because you dont want to.

Anet is trying to pull the two groups, pvp and pvers closer together. Splitting them isnt the solution.

/not signed

Quozz · May 25, 2006, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Can a PVP player please explain to me why you want us PVE players to play PVP so much? I keep hearing as an arguement that PVE players need to try PVP and that we will like it once we give it a chance. Yet I have never heard the opposite, a PVE player asking PVP players to try PVE because you might like it.

Whats the rational behind trying to get PVE players to PVP? Really I want to know. Its not like your going to want to play with us since we will be unranked.

/signed so that Anet never makes the moronic move of instituting a favor system in future chapters (I still hold out hope that they will change the current one at some point).

/signed to keep pure PVP characters seperated from PVE characters. The only fun PVP experience I have had is with Fort Aspenwood. And this is because the teams are random and there are fewer hard core PVP players. Its fun casual play and I am not rank descriminated against. If Anet were to change it so organized teams could go in and PVP toons could play then I would never visit there again.

Dougal Kronik · May 25, 2006, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Disassociating the 2 styles so one does not influence the other is the solution.

Keep the inter-connectivity as Hunter stated with the PvE skill and item unlocks resulting in unlocks for PvP.

Remove (or modify) the dependency of one region winning and holding HoH from granting access to UW/FoW. Remove (or modify) the acquisition and holding of HzH and Cavalon for granting access to the Elite Missions.

/signed

Cyril Aspect · May 25, 2006, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quozz

Can a PVP player please explain to me why you want us PVE players to play PVP so much? I keep hearing as an arguement that PVE players need to try PVP and that we will like it once we give it a chance. Yet I have never heard the opposite, a PVE player asking PVP players to try PVE because you might like it.

Whats the rational behind trying to get PVE players to PVP? Really I want to know. Its not like your going to want to play with us since we will be unranked.

.

Almost all pvp players have little to no choice about doing pvp, to remain competitive we must get pve equipment and armors, all of us also note that getting skills is far easier in pve and therefore is th emost efficient way to do it.

we must play pve to be competitve in pvp.

Darkest Dawn · May 25, 2006, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stockholm

You know sometimes you get home from work and want to relax, been thinking all day on Important matters, matters that concern ppl's lively hood other peopls invested money and so on. Then go and do PvP so I can think a bit more while I get verbally abused by some preteen because his mamma pissed him off, or my attiention wanderd a tad, No thx I prefer PvE, where I can turn off chat channel and play the game.

QFT

I don't mind an ocassional PvP match, but 98% PvE for me FTW.

I wonder if Anet/NCsoft will rotate on each chapter; one more PvP content, and another more PvE? This way it would balance out as each type can, if wanted, get every other chapter.

That said, PvP and PvE cannot be totally seperated without some serious issues arising. All they need to do to keep both sides happy is have tons of PvE content to keep the grinders happy like they did in Prophesy's, while adding more PvP content to keep the PvPers happily engaged. Do this without forcing each side to do the other, except if desired.

Case in point, I logged 1000+ hours in Prophesy's, and out of that perhaps played 8-10 GvG, 20-30 arena games. These were totally voluntary. Since the game was so rich with things to do, and places to explore, I stayed happily focused without having to do anything. Heck, most of it was with henchies as I'm a father of two little kids, and rarely can commit myself to a party of humans.

I like having the option to PvP, so /unsigned on the seperation, but /signed on more unrepetitive PvE content to keep my wanderlust sated.

A slow unhurried story, with a light touch of human interaction is a beautiful thing to me, lol

WasAGuest · May 25, 2006, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyril Aspect

Firstly I'm Pve Pvp

now then @wasaguest you do realize that if your opinion is not based on facts then it can be argued against right? I mean believe what you want but thats a way of discussion that is perfectly acceptable.

reading both yours and phades points I would recommend that you would do well to shorten your posts to "I think this" without reasons because if you give reasons then it cna be disputed and if you don't want people arguing your opinions then jsut phrase them as such

what he did was point inaccuracies in things which clearly you state as factors in formulating your opinion

an opinion based on false information is not quite as useful as one based on true circumstances

Phades post was not done in a tone that could be considered a flame and I take offense that you would dismiss without real discussion someone who took tha tmuch time to go through your own statements point by point.

all of that aside the point remains what are logical reasons for separating the two.

pasted from page 1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAguest

Don't agree?, that's fine. We are all entitled to our opinions, but I feel

Definition of opinion:

o·pin·ion (ə-pĭn'yən) pronunciation
n.

1. A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.

Link to the definition: Hope that helps

Cyril Aspect · May 25, 2006, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

pasted from page 1.

Definition of opinion:

o·pin·ion (ə-pĭn'yən) pronunciation
n.

1. A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.

Link to the definition: Hope that helps

thats exactly my point couching your speech in a way that obscures that the only thing you have is an opinion is deceptive and wastes our time

the simple point was you should have just stated your opinion once and then left. reiterating it is only served if you are trying to convert people to your baseless opinion. a wrong opinion is still wrong whether you believe it or not.

and by wrong i mean based on false information.

one single post of my opinion is enough more than one seems suspiciously like something other thna an opnion which you are posting.

your feelings matter but not to the same degree that the facts of the case matter. at least not in my opinion.

WasAGuest · May 25, 2006, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyril Aspect

thats exactly my point couching your speech in a way that obscures that the only thing you have is an opinion is deceptive and wastes our time

the simple point was you should have just stated your opinion once and then left. reiterating it is only served if you are trying to convert people to your baseless opinion. a wrong opinion is still wrong whether you believe it or not.

and by wrong i mean based on false information.

one single post of my opinion is enough more than one seems suspiciously like something other thna an opnion which you are posting.

your feelings matter but not to the same degree that the facts of the case matter. at least not in my opinion.

That was my point as well, that is was opinion, my opinion. Which I stated in each response, including yours. However, it seemed as though it was being taken as fact or something. Had, what I said not been seemingly taken as fact or something, then I would not have responded. I just wanted to make sure that it was known that it was not anything more than opinion... and trying to derail an opinion (IMO ironically) is a waste of time.

There is also no such thing as a wrong opinion; as "wrong" is the opinion of the person who doesn't agree with the others' opinion. Best example here: PvP is as boring as watching paint dry. That's my opinion and anyone who says otherwise is "wrong".

That's all. /wave

Hunter Sharparrow · May 25, 2006, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

I gave that idea in this fourm and mod banned me for that idea. I knew from the start this would be a major problem. Why do I think this because ant target markets rpg players. The vast amount of people buying gw is rpg players. Anet has soo move so far from they promised it is not even funny. If you keep pushing pvp down prg players throuts you going to find gw going fast on it death bed. That is all I am going say on the topic.

what I had said is to have the 3 game styles in the game.

pvp should have all their skills.

pvpve should have what they want

rpg play the way they like.

Just wanted to let ya know, since you quoted what I said, that I made a spelling correction in one particular sentance that changed the entire meaning of that sentance.

dreamhunk · May 25, 2006, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter Sharparrow

In prophecies alot of people complained about the favor system. All it did was create problems for those that play PvE. In factions problems were amplified now that the PvP and PvE are more closely tied together.

There are those that do PvP, those that do PvE and those that do both. A total seperation wouldn't do much good. What is needed is a connetion between them in such a way that all three player types are satisfied but just remove how one has an impact on the other; how one puts limits on the other.

So /signed to seperate the two but ony seperate their influence upon each other while leaving the inter-connectivity between them.

i love your idea that is what I was trying to say in my post that I had made. we are both in agreement.

Fitz Rinley · May 25, 2006, 11:41 PM // 23:41

/Not signed, I think...

I am one of the most rifted by the conflict of PvP v PvE.

I rarely PvP because of the lack of respect and issues with the system that I find there. I have done it while waiting for PvE friend to come on-line.

I would like to see PvP changed by:
1) No one may map out while in combat.
2) If disconnected the character remains in combat under control of AI.
3) If reconnected the player waits until AI is done before they may again have control of any character. (But maybe let them watch the match as an observer: Your account is currently engaged in combat. Please wait.)
4) Characters played by the AI earn no rewards from the encounter.
5) Charcters must meet before and after a match and /solute to begin and again to end the match. No match starts until this is done.
6) Any players making remarks which may be found offensive (especially those of sore winners and sore losers) are banned progressively until permanent.
7) Rewards, purchasable with faction, allowing change of hair style to one of the faction you are spending, changes of armor skin to one of the faction you are spending, changes of weapons skins to one of the faction you are spending, etc.
8) While equiping a faction purchased item, or style, NPC reactions to you are madified the amount of that faction purchase.
9) Allow Favor to continue controlling the times when the avatars appear and provide boons at shrines.
10) Eliminate the control over PvE access to UW/FoW.

Integrating PvP and PvE is not an issue if the following distinction is held:
1) Competition is something players do together denoting achievement of the best results with extra reward, and all effort with reward.
2) Opposition is something players give to computer generated and maintained aggressors in only PvE environments and only exists in a combat manner in gladiatorial arenas. (That is when the foe is a fellow player, they receive the respect of being a fellow player.)

I would like to see changes in PvE as follows:

1) Faction limited to granting special purchase prices or affecting npc reaction.
2) An attainable condition reasonable for a casual (Non-bot) player be introduced that allows access to Favor and Faction controlled content.

Perhaps something that cannot be accomplished by a bot, such as reach a certain place and complete the inscription with the vision the gods give you at the time. That vision would ofcourse be a code that changes. Once the player enters the code their character becomes capable of entering restricted areas.

The code changes each time that player clicks on the generating object. If a bot tries this what are the chances of them hitting a randomly generated code on the first shot. This should be a one person event, parties (including sneaky bots) are not awarded this status based on one persons work.)

Rather than total separation I would like to see effective and correct unification.

Fitz

Zui · May 26, 2006, 04:52 AM // 04:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quozz

Can a PVP player please explain to me why you want us PVE players to play PVP so much? I keep hearing as an arguement that PVE players need to try PVP and that we will like it once we give it a chance. Yet I have never heard the opposite, a PVE player asking PVP players to try PVE because you might like it.

Whats the rational behind trying to get PVE players to PVP? Really I want to know. Its not like your going to want to play with us since we will be unranked.

All competitive PvPers are forced to PvE for multiple sets of armor, and for items. It is also much faster to unlock skills in PvE, than to unlock them in PvP. Every competitive PvPer that I know(including myself), does infact play PvE, and many even enjoy it(myself included). This is why you never see PvErs say that PvPers need to PvE. They already do.

I'd say the reason many PvPers encourage PvErs to play PvP is to eliminate the misunderstanding that many PvErs have about PvP, I'll go into this in more detail later in my post. And because many PvPers used to be PvErs, switched to PvP, and are now having a great time. PvE can't keep you entertained with the game forever, PvP, in my oppinion, can. PvE is static, PvP is dynamic. No one is saying one is wrong, or bad, or not fun(ok some do, but this mostly due to lack of understanding). They're just different, and PvP has a higher replayability in my oppinion, as every match is different. If you really don't like PvP, don't play it, but at least try it out before you decide you don't like it, I'd reccomend doing a few Guild vs Guild battles with your guild, that should give you a taste of what PvP is really about(by all means don't do HA, this will likely make you hate PvP).

Now, as you've said "Its not like your going to want to play with us since we will be unranked." This is not true. Player rank is only earned via Heroes' Ascent, which is considered by many PvPers to be an absolute joke. No one honestly takes rank seriously, apart from hardcore Heroes' Ascent players, infact there are a good deal of players in the top 50 guilds that aren't even ranked, or are rank 3(Last of Master from EvIL, the #1 guild on the ladder, is an example of one who's 'only' rank 3). There are many reasons why this is so, but that's not really relavant to this thread, and is best left for another time.

Just like PvE, you're going to find the immature 12 year olds who are "1337" and think they know everything. There are alot of them at Hereos' Ascent and Random Arenas. No one is denying this. You also find alot of them in PvE pickup groups. Which is why, IMO rule #1 of guildwars is try and avoid pickup groups.

Alot of good PvPers don't want to spend their time playing with players of a much lower skill level, but you can surely find some, and you'll always find people who are around your level. Again, you see this in PvE too, if you're going to try to clear FoW, you don't bring the guy who is probably going to aggro 7 mobs(or drop the book after aggroing 7 mobs, when that trick worked) and end up wiping your party.

I'll also say that PvP players expect people to improve, and want to improve. They also want people to understand the game mechanics, and then use those to try and play as best they can. Alot of people mistake this for being "elitest" or "snobbish." You'll find that most non 12 year olds will be content with you trying to improve, and trying to learn, and will probably even offer you tips. If you aren't willing to ever improve, then PvP is not for you, and you will get flamed when you brag about your 13-19 damage sundering crystalline sword and claim your 15k ascalon armor does infact stack.

PvP is more of a team game than PvE is. It requires much more elaborate teamwork, and this is where alot of people get the impression you can't be a casual PvPer. You can(although I will admit that I am not). You may not 'always' win, or win a majority of the time if you're a casaul pvper, but you'll have fun, which is what counts. Regardless, you need to be a team player, and be willing to use a team build, and probably communicate over a voice chat program like ventrilo or teamspeak. For even more effective play, it's even useful to work out things like a Res order, so you know who resses who, and when, this way you don't have 4 players ressing the same person(especialy if it's say in GvG when you're pushed back to your main gate, and they'll res in 4 seconds).

Because of these misconceptions, alot of PvErs think PvP is not for them, when it just might be. Well, that was a much longer answer than I wanted to type, but hopefuly that answered your questions.

As for this topic, /unsigned to seperating PvP and PvE. It's a horrible idea, and goes against what seems like the goal with factions of uniting PvE and PvP. Instead of having them constantly hating on eachother due to misunderstandings furthered by 12 year olds(happes on both ends).

Phades · May 26, 2006, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

That was my point as well, that is was opinion, my opinion. Which I stated in each response, including yours. However, it seemed as though it was being taken as fact or something. Had, what I said not been seemingly taken as fact or something, then I would not have responded. I just wanted to make sure that it was known that it was not anything more than opinion... and trying to derail an opinion (IMO ironically) is a waste of time.

There is also no such thing as a wrong opinion; as "wrong" is the opinion of the person who doesn't agree with the others' opinion. Best example here: PvP is as boring as watching paint dry. That's my opinion and anyone who says otherwise is "wrong".

That's all. /wave

It would have been far more simple to just write /signed with your post then. It would have saved alot of time. Attempting to back it up with reasoning without facts is meaningless.

AlyssaMarcia · May 28, 2006, 12:38 AM // 00:38

I have never entered pvp because there is too much arrogance and testosterone. It's a massacre of peoples ego's and counter ego's I have never and will never go in pvp. Your problem is that this game was really built around the idea of doing both and I can't change that neither can you. It is like part of the ground work of this game, I accept that. From the favor of the gods to the collection of faction in cantha it is laced in too tight, faction would be too easy to get otherwise. What would determine who has the favor of the gods? If we all can enter Fow & UW then no one will because shard & ecto prices would crash. Sorry but you can't have what you want and not destroy the economy.

Sanji · May 28, 2006, 11:46 AM // 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlyssaMarcia

I have never entered pvp because there is too much arrogance and testosterone. It's a massacre of peoples ego's and counter ego's I have never and will never go in pvp.

That's a gross oversimplification of PvP and that attitude hurts the game as a whole. Sure, PvP has some buttheads, but so does PvE. To be honest, when it comes down to it, there really is just as many degenerate internet toughguys in PvE as PvP. They just come in slightly different flavors: Rude Idiots and Obscene Morons.

Random PvP can be a grab bag of awful, to be sure, but it has a certain "unique" charm to it. Just like PuGs and outpost banter. :P

PvE allows you (to some degree) filter out those who you do not want to deal with. PvP is no different, if you find a group of people you know and trust, your experience will generally be positive as long as you are mature enough shrug off idiots you run into on the other team. Someone is eventually going to say/do something reprehensible that you might not like in either mode, you just have to make the best of it and remember it's a game.

Terra Xin · May 28, 2006, 11:52 AM // 11:52

Quote:

It would have been far more simple to just write /signed with your post then. It would have saved alot of time. Attempting to back it up with reasoning without facts is meaningless.

thank god you have an opinion....

/notsigned

Be aware that the separation of PvP and PvE is effectively creating two 'pitches' to sell the game. Not feasible.... to bad. And.... I support everyone else who /notsigned this thread.

ducktape · May 29, 2006, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

I appreciate all the feedback, and the fact that so far this remains civil. I am enjoying reading all the diverse opinions. But let me clarify. I'm not asking for a seperation in the sense that you either do one or the other. I know enough players enjoy doing both and want to keep that diversity. But as some have stated there is too strong a link between the two which tends to cause a riff between the hardcore and the casual players. "Bob" may want to come home from work (school) and unwind by going head to head with others, while "Joe" just wants to relax and do some casual problem solving. Why can't we have both without requiring the two to overlap so much. And Anet has stated that they intended to integrate PvP and PvE more in Factions. Result so far is the increased animosity seen on this, and other forums.

{Edited for spelling}

Could you at least clarify in the main post that you don't want to keep PvE characters from doing PvP, just that you suggest PvP and PvE not affect each other? Seems a lot of people get mad about the idea of not being able to do both.

As for me,
/signed
Please let PvE have a way to earn access to all areas without PvP involvement, and give PvP rewards for PvP stuff, not PvE rewards for PvP stuff. Then everyone gets to play the type of activity they want and get the corresponding rewards for it. Play both, get both. Play one, get one. Common sense produces happier customers.